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Pro-Israel Students Ousted from BDS Event

Brooklyn College’s controversial event churns out more controversy

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Pro-Israel Students Gather Outside BDS Event at Brooklyn College (NYTimes)

A panel on the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement hosted by the Students for Justice in Palestine at Brooklyn College turned even more contentious last night after four students affiliated with Hillel were ousted from the event.

“I heard probably about half of what Judith Butler said when I got kicked out,” said Ari Ziegler, a 23-year-old CUNY graduate student studying experimental psychology. “CUNY police escorted us out and when we asked them what we did wrong they said, ‘we don´t have an answer.’ It’s disappointing because they had said that it was a forum for asking tough questions and trying to understand.”

According to Ziegler, the students had anti-BDS material in their laps and were planning on using the material to help inform their questions during the Q&A session following the panel discussion.

Brooklyn College´s Vice President Milga Morales, who was standing nearby, saw the incident, but did not intercede.

“I was escorted out for nothing more than the fact that I was holding a paper that would help me assess my decision on my feelings over BDS,” said Michael Ziegler, a senior at Brooklyn College.

The panel had become a touchstone for heated debate about academic freedom and brought the controversial goals of the BDS movement into clearer focus. In a letter written to the Hillel Board last week, Brooklyn College President Karen Gould promised that the forum would promote academic freedom and free speech, and she encouraged attendees to speak up at the event.

¨I expect all who attend or present at next week´s event to engage in civil discourse at all times, and I encourage those who do attend with opposing views to participate in the discussion, ask tough questions, and challenge any ideas with which they disagree,¨ she wrote.

The crowd largely seemed to consist of students in favor of the BDS movement though, and some pro-Israel supporters with some such opposing views were turned away. The Scroll continues to investigate, but the event may be at odds with a non-discrimination policy that states that students will not be excluded from participation in the programs of the college because of national or ethnic origin, or religion.

Melanie Goldberg, an Israel Campus Coalition intern, said she had registered three weeks ago and received two emails confirming that she had a spot reserved, but then arrived and was turned away because her name was not on the list.

“I knew I´d have problems getting in,” Goldberg said.

Norma Chiabott, a 20-year-old undergraduate, had a similar story. “I signed up yesterday and was second on the wait list and still didn´t get in,” she said.

Brooklyn College has been the target of fierce criticism since it announced that the event would be sponsored by the college´s Political Science department. Many pointed to the fact that CUNY was a taxpayer-supported institution that should have maintained political neutrality. A few prominent New York politicians had even threatened to cut the school’s funding.

Earlier: NY Times, MSNBC Whitewash BDS
Related: The Professor’s Shoddy History [Tablet]

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Seems that the polisci department of Brooklyn College has decided that even though everyone supported their right of free speech no one else is entitled to excersie their free speech and question BDS. Now it is time to have a serious talk about defunding Brooklyn College. Maybe someone should ask Bloomberg and all the liberal hypocrites about this event and what should be done about it.

    Afrayedknot says:

    Serious talk? No, serious action. It’s time to actually do something instead constantly talking about it. Since this is a publicly funded college, it’s time to start lobbying the relevant politicians. It’s also time to start lobbying alumni to withhold any donations until the situation changes.

    It’s time to fight, period.

      Afrayedknot – look, I’m not American, but a Budapester guy in Hungary. But I’m not afraid to say and undertake: these people at this institutionally antisemitic, quasi-Nazi college would NEVER be tolerated in my poor and small country. So much about America. My stomach turns inside out. I’m a 3rd generational Holocaust-survivor-descendant, unlike the rabid fraud Anna Baltzer, in reality Piller who is a genocidally pro-Israel-destruction BDS-er just like these other creeps. Look for Lee Kaplan’s exposé of these “people”.

mishamb says:

The BDS movement is racist. Who would have guessed? Maybe the organizers were afraid somebody would ask Omar Barghuti about his university studies in Tel Aviv. That makes him an Israeli academic. Shouldn’t the BDS movement be boycotting him? But then he lead the group calling for the boycott of ISraeli academics. Shouldn’t he be boycotting himself. I guess only Jews get boycotted.

    Moshan says:

    Hmm, except that the entire story is false. Even Algemeiner is now confirming this. They were never “ousted”.

    The money quote:

    “Jeremy Thompson, a Brooklyn College spokesman, told The Algemeiner that the school had a different understanding of what occurred. “My understanding is that these students were in the room along with the rest of the audience.

    From the first speaker they began to speak out, they were becoming vocal and disruptive to the members around them and one of the student organizers of the event went to them and said ‘you really need to be quiet you’re disrupting other people around you.’

    They then did not comply and a couple of police officers asked them to come out into the lobby.” Thompson also claimed that school officials in attendance, including Morales, confirmed this account.”

    See more here: http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/02/08/efforts-to-shut-down-dissent-at-anti-israel-brooklyn-college-event-reported/

    And here: http://mondoweiss.net/2013/02/tablet-student-activists.html

    In other words: the thugs who were misbehaving – and had to be thrown out by the police – were the thuggish right-wing Zionists.

    Hilarious how misinformed a lot of people are on this site. I also note that the story isn’t updated. This isn’t news: this is red meat to the trolls on this site, it’s incitement to keep the pressure up. In other words: propaganda rather than facts.
    The right-wing in this country, Jewish or not, does not live in reality.

      GilGimesh says:

      what facts you have a story told by people who were there, contradicted by someone who wasn’t, you choose to believe the person who wasn’t. too funny.

      shamless, cheap liar. and worse, you are simply deranged. the Algemeiner article in fact *CONFIRMED* this piece you illiterate idiot.

      Moshan says:

      The entire premise of the alarmism that Tablet and other right-wing publications peddles is “OMG THEY WERE THROWN OUT BECAUSE THEY WERE PRO-ISRAEL” while in fact they were asked to tone down their heckling, and they refused, so police escorted them out.
      In other words: they acted like assholes. So they paid the price. They didn’t get barred because of their opinions.
      But that story isn’t as convenient to the Israel-right-or-wrong crowd.
      Nothing ever is.

        I was at the event. There was absolutely no heckling of any kind by the students. In fact, they remained silent even after they were asked to leave. I’m sure the college’s surveillance as well as the event video will in fact confirm my account.

          Lee Kaplan says:

          Arab and BDS activists routinely try to shout down or prevent pro-Israel speakers or attendees at their events. Hinders the lies and whines of victimhood. Pusilannimous campus administrators, sometimes sympathetic morons facilitate this. See this:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiO0wNwoQPY

      Moshan says:

      The entire premise of the alarmism that Tablet and other right-wing publications peddles is “OMG THEY WERE THROWN OUT BECAUSE THEY WERE PRO-ISRAEL” while in fact they were asked to tone down their heckling, and they refused, so police escorted them out.
      In other words: they acted like assholes. So they paid the price. They didn’t get barred because of their opinions.
      But that story isn’t as convenient to the Israel-right-or-wrong crowd.
      Nothing ever is.

      Quoting mondoweiss, you godda be kiddin’ us.

      Natan79 says:

      Yeah, right wing. You Moshan are a liar. Go the hell with your right wing, anti-Semite. You goddam Moshan bastard, you use Zionist as an insult. You deny our right to have a country! May you lose yours. No surprise you quote from Mondoweiss, the hardcore Jew-hating filthy website that filthy liars like yourself love. What else do you have, piece of shit Nazi Moshan?

    Pro Jew says:

    stop crying anti-Semitic at everything

Oh the irony of :”free speech” advocates. Omar Barghouti received his master’s degree at Tel Aviv University according to Wikipedia. BTW, the press was barred!

    Oam Barghouti in Oakland told a JEwish Voice for Peace audience that Jesus was not a Jew but rather a Palestinian, The audience still gave him a standing ovation.
    These people are just plain sick and stupid.

    Lee Kaplan says:

    Barghouti is not an Israeli-Arab but a Kuwaiti. The student body at Te Aviv U signed a peetition he be expelled but the leftist morons there in charge ignored it. Kuwait is technically at war with Israel. Barghouti speaking at a Presbyterian Church in Oakland during Occupy, told an audience of Jewish Voice for Peace anti-semites that Jesus was not a Jew but a Palestinian, He got a standing ovation from the JVP attendees at the end of his “speech.” They don’t want video because they can then deny things took place. See this too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-uz-7e3mDc

Paula B says:

So, Palestinian students are allowed free reign to interrupt and shout down people to the point that there is no dialogue at all, but people who come with opposing views but behave themselves are thrown out just because they’re Jewish?
We said it couldn’t happen in the US, but the Palestinians are bringing Hitler to America, and they’re being allowed free reign to do it.
Sometimes you have to stand up for what’s right, not for what’s expedient. That’s not happening in Brooklyn, of all places.

Metatrona says:

It was a propaganda meeting aided and abetted by College staff. I wonder if money changed hands. Be interesting to find out.

Habbgun says:

Very ironic that the same mayor who doesn’t believe people can decide whether they want a large soda, bottle feed their newborns or be responsible enough to carry a weapon in self defense is suddenly an advocate for free speech. Of course he isnt. He threw out the Jewish students so that he can be in with the “right people”. It is a choice he always makes.
The University system is an ecnomic “cancer” on the American people. Its debt is killing the middle class and lower classes. Things like this are a symptom of the corruption. It is a symptom of systemic issues and an academic class that is too big but produces little outside of the sciences yet through required courses, etc. mandates its own existence. We need education to be streamlined, voluntary, efficient and economically feasible. That means competition and the end of the 4 year degree unless someone specifically wants it and pays for it voluntarily.
We can bring sanity back. We can bring fairness back. We can reform and move forward. No more BDS…..no more CUNY….a better way can and must be found.

John Doe says:

Unlike Israel, here in America we have freedom of speech. Bloomberg said it best, “Move to North Korea if you can’t handle it.” This is democracy. This is liberty. This is freedom. If you dont like it, Fuck off!

    judithbell says:

    Can you not read? People were thrown out or not allowed in because they would challenge the speakers.

    Either you support free speech for all or you don’t. And it seems that anti-Israel posters always use pseudonyms. Why don’t you use your real name?

      They were thrown out because they were HECKLING the speakers and being disruptive.

      This isn’t new. Zionists kill Palestinian kids all the time so I guess this kind of animalistic behavior from their Jewish American counterparts is unsurprising.

        judithbell says:

        Really? Were you there? Because there are people who are posting here who say otherwise, as well as people who spoke to the press. There are clearly contradictory statements but when I wrote this post I was responding to the information in the article.

        However, I must say I am charmed by your reference to the “animalistic” behaviour of people whose opinions you disagree with.

        I don’t mean to alarm you but when your response is to dehumanize your opponents it results in a climate where anyone who dares to go against the group’s mantra is at risk. That would include YOU unless you are the most and last radical standing. It also shows that you are not so secure in your debating points that you must resort on labelling and demonization instead of argument.

        You should really post on Mondoweiss dear. Everyone shares your opinion, and as was explained to me by the moderator the comments section is not a democracy.

        Evidently, you are not allowed to mention such hateful screed as Israel was founded by the UN as a Jewish state.

        You would be happy there where the War of Ideas only allows one side to be armed. You could call people animalistic, zio-nazis etc just never mention America was founded as a colony or the right of Jewish self-determination and you will be fine.

        Sorry, I just promised Annie I would give Mondoweiss a plug where I could.

    Bloomberg is a goddamned idiot.

SJP, Students for Justice in Palestine, is an organization of rabid anti Zionists. They ran the event last night. Whether their tactics of getting people kicked out or not let in (I waited on line in the cold for over 90 minutes and because of my expressed opinions was not let in despite my Brooklyn College i.d.) reflected the will of Mister Barghouti we will never know. Barghouti should debate Shlomo Sand or Larry Derfner, two leftists who are in favor of a two state solution. It may be that Derfner and Sand are not as vociferously opposed to BDS as they are opposed to the unreality of the one state solution.

Butler is an interesting case. I read her speech in The Nation. It needs a bit of study.

I saw Barghouti at NYU about a year ago. He is arrogant, but that is besides the point. One wonders if the cultlike nature of the one state movement decried by Norman Finkelstein (no proZionist he) is meant to refer to Barghouti.

I was hoping that hearing Barghouti in person again would cause me to forget or dilute the impression Barghouti made on me at NYU. On that February 27th 2012 occasion Barghouti presented a slide show. Included with the slides was a quote from Desmond Tutu: (paraphrase:) “How can the Palestinians be antiSemites when the Palestinians themselves are Semites”. If anyone needs references why this is a problematic idea to pop into the middle of a rational discourse, write to me and I will explain.

Slide #2 was a cartoon of Jesus crucified on the cross, alive enough to kick the Israeli soldier out of Bethlehem. Anyone who needs references why Jesus on the cross is not an idea to pop into a rational discourse, write to me and I will explain.

SJP has zero interest in dialogue of any sort. Hating Israel and hating Jews are not always the same, but sometimes they are the same. Think of the Venn diagram. Sometimes the overlap is 10% sometimes 90%. SJP tends towards the 90%.

SJP did not provide me with an opportunity to reset my opinion of Barghouti. A year ago he indulged in subtle demagoguery, introducing hateful themes into his so called rational discourse.

    Bringing up 2 vocally borderline antisemites like Derfner the terror-supporter, please see why he was fired fortwith from the Jerusalem Post he has worked at for decades, and the history falsifier peddling fiction charlatan Shlomo Sand is a colossal mistake on your part. None of those 2 obnoxious toxic figures are salonfähig as the germans would say. They are extremists and radicals beyond the pale Yonah.

      I’m not American, but a Budapester guy in Hungary. But I’m not afraid to say and undertake: these people at this institutionally antisemitic, quasi-Nazi college would NEVER be tolerated in my poor and small country. So much about America. My stomach turns inside out. I’m a 3rd generational Holocaust-survivor-descendant, unlike the rabid fraud Anna Baltzer for example, in reality Piller, who is a genocidally pro-Israel-destruction BDS-er just like these other creeps and who is in 1 closely-knit group with them. Look for Lee Kaplan’s exposé of these “people”.

I hope someone got video.. That would really help in the lawsuit and help to confirm the reports.

Jane Doe says:

Alex Kane at Mondoweiss was actually at the event and his reporting refutes the Tablet line on this. The anti-BDS students who were ejected were passing out flyers and talking while Judith Butler was speaking. When they were asked to stop they refused and were then escorted out. And the idea that people were excluded because they were Jewish is ludicrous.

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/02/tablet-student-activists.html

    Jane Doe- first of all very creative name. second of all, people were excluded because of their political point of view. See above.

      Wondering Jew, why are you clinging to this lie when you go to Mondoweiss regularly and are familiar with Alex?

      Pathetic.

      Here is an update on this fake controversy from Algemeirer, a Jewish publication:

      “My understanding is that these students were in the room along with the rest of the audience. From the first speaker they began to speak out, they were becoming vocal and disruptive to the members around them and one of the student organizers of the event went to them and said ‘you really need to be quiet you’re disrupting other people around you.’ They then did not comply and a couple of police officers asked them to come out into the lobby.” Thompson also claimed that school officials in attendance, including Morales, confirmed this account.”

      Tablet wasn’t even there and they defer to the judgment of these pro-Israel students who lied.

        @lish -Selective reading of that Algemeirer article i order to support your BDS point of view? Who says the 3 other students were lying you?

        From Algemerier:

        Melanie Goldberg, an Israel Campus Coalition intern says she and three other students were escorted out by security because they would not relinquish BDS fact sheets that were in their possession.

        “One of the SJP (Students for Justice in Palestine, which organized the event) members came over and got really close to my face and told me to give him the sheets, or he would call security. I told him I would not. We were simply taking notes so we could ask informed questions like we were encouraged to do by the school and Political Science Department,” Goldberg told The Algemeiner…“I was at the event to hear what all the controversy was about to try to understand the arguments the BDS movement makes, its aspirations, and the actions that it calls for,” Ari Ziegler, a CUNY graduate student studying experimental psychology, said. “I was sitting with the three other students holding the info- sheets on the BDS movement, and I was forcibly removed from my seat.”

        “We were forced out of the meeting because we were reading informational material to ask informed questions,” Yvonne Juris, a CUNY graduate, added. “The silencing and removing of us students is a clear example of violation of academic freedom.”

          Not selective reading AT ALL.

          Read the part that YOU IGNORED.

          LOL@’BDS’ point of view.

          Actually, it’s a reality-based point of view.

          These pro-Israel students LIED and got caught lying.

        Lish- What is your name at mondoweiss?
        I didn’t claim that alex kane was false reporting. He did not include in his report what happened to me outside. I was excluded from the event because I was expressing opinions. The SJP attitude toward those who disagree with them extended to the line of people waiting to get in. They didn’t allow me in, I assume, not because I was Jewish but because somebody from the counterdemonstration came over and said hello to me and outed me as someone opposed to BDS. Or because I expressed loud opinions to the man standing next to me. Or because someone who was touting the value of “Revolution” was answered by me loudly “What about Russia? Revolution worked well there, huh?”

      Jane Doe says:

      No, there is no confirmation that people were excluded because of their political beliefs. There were anti-BDS people in the audience, including the ones passing out flyers. Second, Tablet is insinuating that people were excluded because of their religion or ethnic origin and that is absolutely false, but that falsity doesn’t seem to bother you.

        What bothers me/us is your gullible or alternatively, carefully constructed lies like that of your Der Stürmer-weblog.

        Jane Doe- I was waiting on line. I was excluded from the event. I think an immediate response, they excluded me because i am a jew, is a natural, if unfortunate, first response. they excluded me because i hold an opposing point of view.

    Haha. Mondoweiss is an echte antisemitic weblog á la Der Stürmer…

      Mondoweiss is not antisemitic.

      Zionist lunatics call everything under the sun, antisemitic.

      Meanwhile all the human rights orgs in the world call Israel out for it’s genocidal and colonial crimes in Palestine.

    judithbell says:

    Oh, Mondoweiss – well I am impressed. I tried to join Monodweiss and post. Believe me, my posts met their “”guidelines” I post constantly on NYT, Daily Beast and definitely Al Jazeera.

    Monodweiss is the most repressive, free speech blocking outlet going. I am sure people who were at Brooklyn College would like to respond to Alex Kane but they will be blocked by the “moderator”

    That is the whole issue. The new tact is to accuse pro=Israel supporters of suppressing free speech, – while suppressing the pro-Israel supporters speech.

    I will now try to post just this last idea on Mondoweiss without discussing what I said about Mondoweiss. Let me know Jane Doe when you see it.

    And I have to say I find it interesting that yours is one of 2 comments that support the BDS side and it is also one of 2 comments where real names are not used. It says a lot of how comfortable your are with your own opinion.

      judithbell, you are totally correct.

      I’v tried to post on Mondoweiss and they have never let one of my posts on their sites.

      Mondoweiss only allows their posters to be viciously anti Israel.

      Keep in mind, this is the same Mondoweiss that had two of their writers claim the Itamar massacre 2 years ago was committed by foreign workers and not the Palestinians.

      http://mondoweiss.net/2011/03/after-itamar-exploring-the-cynical-logic-that-makes-everyone-a-target.html

      http://mondoweiss.net/2011/04/itamar-video-says-settlement-had-night-and-day-perimeter-surveillance.html

      When it turned out that Palestinians were behind the massacre, both Robbins and Max refused to apologize for their lies.

      That is why they don’t want people posting on Mondoweiss, cause you will show what liars they are.

      If you want to post on Mondoweiss about the Palestinians racist genocidal media against Israel, which Palmediawatch has brilliantly documented, don’t even think that post is going on.

      If you want to post how Palestinians hide behind civilians and fire missiles at Israel, don’t even think that post will go on.

        judithbell says:

        Thanks a lot for posting this. We should continue to try to post to Mondoweiss and keep those posts and bring them out to shine a light on Mondoweiss showing its intolerance of dissent or even a true discussion. So many of these individuals and organizations who are anti-Israel, especially if headed by Jews, are seen as particularly credible and respectful of the values of liberal democracy In fact, these people have their own issues and are rabidly intolerant of debate. BDS which calls for the silencing of academics with a different viewpoint is one of them.

        mudplanet says:

        “Mondoweiss only allows their posters to be viciously anti Israel.” Translation:”I don’t care if we have to murder a million Palestinian children, it’s not terrorism when a Jew murders a dirty Arab or a mewling Christian.”

        Apparently every single human rights organization in the world that monitors the conflict, including Mondoweiss, Yesh Din, BTselem, 972 and the UN are all Jew haters.

        Face it, the only place a miserable racist zionist won’t be criticized for his or her racism and lies is on the web site Jerusalem Post or Elders of zyon, where you’ll find their hateful lies posted between full page ads by rabbis calling for Jewish parents to prohibit their children from dating non-Jews and accusations that any Jew who doesn’t agree with their racism is a “Self-hating Jew.”

          Mondoweiss is a mentally ill guy of Jewish descent out to destroy teh Jews like Torquemada and Pfeverkorn. Sick, twisted individual incapable of being truthful…

          LOL

          Every single mainstream human rights NGO says otherwise Lee Kaplan, you sick demented Jewish colonist.

          Lee Kaplan says:

          NGO’s corrupted by Arab oil money masquerading as EU donations, you sick, twisted anti-Semite. Gaddafi used to head the UN human rights commission, you fool.

          mudplanet says:

          Amazing. Apparently if you’re a batshite crazy zionist you think discussions of human rights sprinkled with allusions to facts is “sick, twisted.”

          Some examples of the “sick, twisted” stories on Mondoweiss:

          Hagel vote set for today as opposition flounders

          Tel Aviv is today’s Sun City

          Israeli ambassador Ron Prosor to speak at Columbia Law School tonight

          Shocking antisemitism, eh, what?

          judithbell says:

          Your post had no trouble being posted on Tablet. If you read any Israeli website or Jewish site, you will find many posts like yours. In my personal opinion your post is inflammatory, contains NO supporting facts and is insulting to other posters here who do not share your viewpoint.

          I invite you to try posting this rewrite of your post on Mondoweiss
          ‘The Zionist controlled outlets only allow their posters to be viciously anti Israel”

          Translation: “I don’t care if we have to shoot 1,000 Grad rockets at Israeli kindergartens at the precise hour the kids are going into school, its not terrorism when a Jihadi murders those Zionist spawn.

          Apparently, every single country whose establishment followed a successful military operation ( All of North America and South America and what is now Israel when it was conquered in war

          by anyone BUT the Jews)

          or who has an indigenous minority but whose cultural symbols are those of the majority ( any country with a Kurdish minority, Quebec whose English population has diminished following the suppression of their language rights, Sweden with its natives whose land was expropriated in the 1940’s to make way for ethnically Swedish farmers, China, Iran, Lithuania with its Russian population who have been there or 100’s of years and on and on. Azerbaijan and Armenia and yes, American that replaced Native and Hispanic culture with Anglo culture by cruel suppression and genocide)

          or any country fighting an insurgency on its borders waged by an ethnic minority (Turkey, China, Russia etc.) and has greater firepower than the insurgents

          or any country established pursuant to international accord and which was a former possession of an imperial power (pretty well all Middle Eastern countries because prior to the awarding of territory by the French and the British to its allies and the establishment of countries along imperial lines, there were few Arab countries. Egypt was the exception, all of Africa,etc.)

          or any country where the a part of the population fled or was orced out due to war (all Middle Eastern countries that had Jewish populations and now those countries like Iraq where Christians have been forced to flee. We won’t count the native Armenians of Azerbijan – 1,000,000 refugees forced to flee in the 1990’s, the Kurds of Turkey forcibly displaced in the 1970’s and their property seized, the 15 million ethnic Germans forcibly removed from Eastern European countries, the Greeks and Turk population transfers of the 1920;s or the present displacement of millions in Pakistan in ethnic conflict in Baluchistan…)

          or any country who has detention of terrorists without trial or indefinitely for security reasons ( US, Canada, Australia, United Kingdom)

          are perfectly entitled to live in their territory in peace and should in no way be targeted, except the ZIONISTS because although, with small exception, all nation-states are the homeland of an ethnic group, the Jews have no right of self-determination ANYWHERE, not even in 16th of 1% of the Middle East. However, we are allowed to all of America and Canada because that is different.

          Face it, the only place a miserable, racist human rights “activist” won’t be criticized for his and her racism and lies is on the web site Mondoweiss or Tikkum Olam, where youll find their hateful lies posted between full page rants by “journalists” calling for boycotts of Ahava while using an Apple computer made by Foxconn that employs student forced labour, all snugly in their James Pringle sweaters made by North Korean slaves in Mongolia and accusations that anyone who suggests that they have no “skin” in the game and are faux “activists” who both benefit from the economic colonialism of their imperial country and are only interested in human rights when the “zionists” are involved but care about no one – not even their precious Palestinians – when it involved any risk to them or even dent in their comfort – is accusing them of “antisemitism” and impinging their “free speech.”

          Go ahead, try to post it. I dare you.

          mudplanet says:

          To begin with, I don’t really care if Mondoweiss agrees with my point of view.

          Everything I post here can be easily verified by anyone with even the most basic research skills and I strongly urge them to do so. Israel is a racist apartheid nation (google “israel racism human rights”) created through terrorism (google “israel zionist terrorism”) including deliberately targeting civilians by blowing up bombs in crowded cafes, markets and buses. Israel conducted two ethnic cleansing campaigns to force one million Christian and Muslim men, women and children from their homes and lands in Israel and into refugee camps at the point of a gun, often executing Palestinian civilians who couldn’t or wouldn’t run (google “nakba expulsion”).

          We’re all wondering what kind of miserable racist arsehole tries to use events in the 19th Century to justify his racism and war crimes today? Would it be OK to murder six million Jews today because the Germans did in in the 20th Century?

          You think my post are inflammatory? GFY, you miserable racist arsehole. As long as you and your racist pals post noxious racist zionist garbage you’re going to find that decent human beings the world over are going to be calling you miserable racist arseholes and denouncing your terrorism and war crimes.

          Facts and human rights are the turd in the punch bowl of the zionist narrative.

          judithbell says:

          I am not going to answer you point by point right now except to say the following.

          Your use of profanity turns whatever point you want to make into a rant. So does insulting a viewpoint you don’t agree with by using vulgar language.

          Secondly, many of the comparisons I made are to existing situations. I suggest you carefully check my post.

          Thirdly, this thread was about BDS and the exclusion of people with opposing views. My point was about Mondoweiss as a credible advocate for free speech and to point out their hypocrisy.

          I took your post, line by line, and I modified it into a rant against you and I invited you to post it on Mondoweiss to show you that the pro-Israel sites allow dissent but Mondoweiss censors.

          I still invite you to do so.

          I notice btw that the pro-israel posters do not use vulgarity or profanity and almost all use their own names instead of pseudo-names. Just an observation.

          mudplanet says:

          Judith, honey, I reserve the right to insult racists, and zionism is racism.

          I have no desire to have a civil conversation with someone who embraces racism and Jewish supremacy and defends terrorism, mass murder and ethnic cleansing campaigns.

          If you’re looking for someone to play nice with you while you defend racism, war crimes and terrorism you’re going to have to go someplace like the Jerusalem Post, where your audience agrees with you that non-Jews are not human beings and don’t have human rights.

          But don’t expect to have a discourse with decent, intelligent human beings and not have your racism and morally bankrupt idea that it’s OK for Jews to blow up buses and force one million Christian and Muslim men, women and children from their homes and lands in Israel and into refugee camps at the point of a gun without those ordinary, decent human beings finding you and your ideas repugnant and often calling you a miserable racist arsehole.

          mudplanet says:

          “, the Jews have no right of self-determination ANYWHERE, not even in 16th of 1% of the Middle East.”

          No, “the Jews” have no right to force one million Christians and Muslims from their homes and lands and into refugee camps at the point of a gun and then to spend five decades denying the internationally recognized human rights of their victims because they want a Jewish state. Those one million men, women and children have human rights, you miserable arsehole.

          If you want “a Jewish state” go find someplace where no one lives.

          There is no “right” of ethnic cleansing and terrorism.

          Would it be OK if Mormons decided to force one million non-Mormons from their homes and lands in Utah because they felt they had a “right” to self-determination?

          judithbell says:

          The number of one million is exaggerated. The accepted figure is approximately 700,000 Arabs left what later became Israel. You weaken your argument when you use hyperbole.

          No, they were not forced out by gunpoint..

          They were displaced by war either by force or because they fled the victorious Israeli army. This has happened in every war at that time, before and since. That would include present conflicts such as Sudan and Syria and Iraq.

          It also happened to the Jews who lived in areas which were conquered by the invading Arab armies. Jerusalem fell after a prolonged siege in which the Jewish population was starved. After that, all synagogues were destroyed, some of which were hundreds of years old and the ancient Jewish quarter razed. Of course, we all know the entire Jewish population of the Maghreb and Levant was then forced out, some communities dated back 2,000 years.

          The Arabs could have established a state at that time on the bulk of land accorded to it by partition. Jordan took the land, annexed it, provided citizenship to the Arabs that had fled and for 19 years took the position that it was Palestine. Other Arab countries put the fleeing refugees in refugee camps and refused to give them any rights. Children born in Syria and Lebanon were not Lebanese or Syrian. .

          The Jews did not put any one in refugee camps, except the hundreds of thousands of Jews that came to be resettled following expulsion from their homes after WW2. The bulk had been expelled from Arab lands. Within a decade Israel had resettled them. This resettlement was true of all of the 50 million refugees after WW2. The decision not to resettle the Arabs was not Israel’s. Nor was the decision not to establish a home in the area accorded by partition.

          No one is denying the Palestinians have human rights. The ones that remained in Israel as opposed to those who went to Lebanon or Syria were given citizenship.

          The Jews have always had a presence in Israel. It has been severely restricted over time because from the Romans to the Byzantines to the British, harsh restrictions were placed on the Jews to prevent them from returning or resettling the land. The Jews never stopped dreaming of a return to Zion. They never had the ability.

          Tell me, do you think that the Natives no longer have a right to North America? You fought the Indian Wars, forced them into treaties but they do not regard themselves as having renounced their rights.

          If you believe that wherever there has been settlement and indigenous people moved, things should be restored to where it was, then what is the time line? I imagine it would be conveniently after the settlement of whatever land you perch on.

          If you want to just start at 1948, I hope you are including all of the dispossession in North and South America of Native people to allow for the development of resources for logging and mining companies, not to mention the return of all the wealth derived therefrom. As well as that in Africa and Asia. I mentioned Baluchistan and the Armenians of Azerbaijan in passing as they involve a large number of people and are ongoing. But start researching countries.

          The Mormon example you give is quite pertinent. At the time the Mormons settled Utah, there were bands of Shoshone whose traditional land it was. The Indians asked for compensation but were told that the land was the Mormons by divine right. The US then chose to call the land public domain after Utah so that no rights were ever recognized. This would have taken place in 1850’s precisely when the first European Jews were buying land from absentee landlords in Palestine, which was a province of the Ottoman Empire and theirs to dispose of, as were all lands of all empires that the imperial powers gave out.

          mudplanet says:

          “The number of one million is exaggerated. The accepted figure is approximately 700,000 Arabs left”

          There ya go! It’s the typical progression of zionist bullshite. They start by totally denying the historical record of zionist terrorism and ethnic cleansing campaigns and when that becomes ridiculous because the facts contradicting their lies are so easily researched by anyone, they segue to trying to argue that when Jews blow up bombs in crowded buses it’s “not terrorism” and when Jews force one million Christian and Muslim men, women and children from their homes and lands in Israel and into refugee camps at the point of a gun, often executing those civilians who couldn’t or wouldn’t flee, that it’s “not ethnic cleansing.”

          Israel forced 750,000 Muslim and Christian men, women and children from their homes and lands and into refugee camps at the point of a gun in 1948, and another 250,000 Christian and Muslim men, women and children from their homes and lands in Israel and into refugee camps in 1967. This fact is easily verified by anyone by googling “nakba”.

          When one religious group forces one million men, women and children of another religious group from their homes and lands at the point of a gun, it’s an ethnic cleansing campaign. It’s ethnic cleansing even when Jews do it.

          And when political organizations deliberately target civilians by blowing up bombs in crowded buses, markets and cafes and systematically executed prisoners it’s terrorism and a war crime. Even when Jews do it. And it’s easily verified that zionists and Israel deliberately targeted civilians by blowing up buses and executed prisoners by googling “zionist terrorism Israeli war crimes”.

          “The Mormon example you give is quite pertinent.” What kind of miserable racist arsehole tries to use events in the 19th Century to justify racism and murder today? (hint: a zionist)

          Lee Kaplan says:

          The UN refugee figures were 400,000 in ’48 and 170,000 were repatriated to Israel from 1952-82. That means 240,000 actual refugees. A refugee is someone with no home. These fuckers today who claim they are refugees are just foreign aid leeches.

          mudplanet says:

          Thanks for illustrating, again, what a bunch of lying, racist arseholes all zionists are.

          “This article lists the various interim and final United Nations estimates for the number of Palestinian people who fled or were expelled from the area that became part of the State of Israel after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. It also provides other interim and final estimates for the number of Palestinian refugees for that period.

          726,000 according to the Final Report of the United Nations Economic Survey Mission for the Middle East published by the United Nations Conciliation Commission, December 28, 1949. [6] (A/AC.25/6/Part.1 p. 21) [note 1]
          711,000 according to the General Progress Report and Supplementary Report of the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine, Covering the Period from 11 December 1949 to 23 October 1950, published by the United Nations Conciliation Commission, October 23, 1950. (U.N. General Assembly Official Records, 5th Session, Supplement No. 18, Document A/1367/Rev. 1)”

          The historical facts and the human rights of non-Jews are the turd in the punch bowl of the zionist narrative.

          Lee Kaplan says:

          Now it’s one million. Why not ten million likem Abu Sitta says? Why not 100 million? The whole Palestinian premise is founded on a Big Lie.

          mudplanet says:

          In 1948 750,000 and in 1967 250,000 Christian and Muslim men, women and children were forced from their homes and lands in Israel and into refugee camps at the point of a gun.

          All this is easily verified by anyone with basic research skills, and you can start by googling “nakba number of refugees”.

          But you know that, you’re just another miserable, lying racist arsehole of a zionist.

    Phil ( Hitler should have finished the job ) Weiss isn’t exactly a reliable source here. Not to mention his staff, all of whom see Israel has the nexus of evil and want to see it exterminated. Check out his column on Ed Koch to see a guy who would have been comfortable in Berlin 1938

    GilGimesh says:

    Kane says he was at the event but witnessed what happened from afar. He bases his claim on second hand accounts. Mondoweiss is one of the most censored site on the web. That a writer for that site has anything credible to say about free speech is laughable.

these people are total and complete Nazis up to the highest ladder at this institutionally racist so-called “college”. basically what we have ehre is a clicque of poorly disguised proto-Nazis most of all the “pol sci” deptartment. Jews must and will fight against the new Hitlers…

Always a double standard with those who
don’t believe Jews have rights to self determination.

herbcaen says:

I think that for honest advertising sake, Brooklyn “college” should issue a statement that zionists should not apply to their “college”. On the entrance to the college should be banners that state “Die Juden sind unser ungluck” (The Jews are our misfortune) in both English and Spanish, as well as German

costellocarpentry@charter.net says:

A day is coming when you will have no freinds left in the world. I beg you, for everyone’s sake to try and be truthful with yourselves.

Lisa Goldman of 972mag ( no friend of Israel either ) reports from the event and mentions no heckling, in fact she calls it a “non event”.

http://972mag.com/after-a-week-of-controversy-the-brooklyn-college-bds-event-was-a-non-event/65634/

And yes, the BDS people are racist and are working towards the abolishment of israel.
And Judith Butler reminds me of a lesbian East German border guard on a freezing winter night in Berlin 1973.

    Habbgun says:

    Sorry but a lesbian East German border guard on freezing winter night in Berlin 1973 was at least doing some useful work.

Mortimer Post says:

The “divestment” scumbags epitomize the left-wing Nazis who infest many corners of academia. They need brass knuckles.

    Our colleges have become cesspools like the colleges in teh Middle East with paid demonstrators yelling and screaming to drown out any opposition. The Irvine 11 are an example. Jews have to start throwing some punches

    They need brass knuckles to fend off the Jewish Nazis who steal, murder, and rape palestine.

I do wonder if, at a more prestigious college, the Jewish contingent would have been large enough to put up a better fight ;)

    Jews don’t fight any more. They are wimps…Bloomberg is their role model. When Jews start acting like black Americans and Latinos in the face of anti-Semitism then we will see an end to these anti-Semitic hatfests in our colleges….

      Jews do fight. They fight Palestinian kids throwing stones and shoot Palestinian kids in the head while they cross the street.

      Judeo-Nazism reigns supreme.

Sounds like what happened at Rutgers University a few years ago. I was there and witnessed it. Rabbi Dr. Bernhard rosenberg

Lee Kaplan says:

UN figures in 1948 of Palestinian (ARAB bullshit artists) refugees were 400,000. Israel repatriated inside Green Line 1952-82 between 120,000 and 170,000 who could prove lost property… Arab League allowed any Arab bullshit artist to apply as refugee up until 1950 when the gates were closed. Those who UNWRA cards were the envy of their Arab peers because the refugee status and cards could be passed generation to generation

(meant free food, clothing, etc. more welfare cheating). That means a net of about 240,000 refugees from 1948. Abu Sitta in London, Palestinian bullshit academic says there are upwards of 10 million refugees. Most lie and say 7 million. THERE NEVER WERE 700,000 REFUGEES IN 1948, THAT FIGURE IS FROM THE 1950 FESTERING WOUND CENSUS PROPAGATED AS THE BIG LIE. See this:

http://www.masada2000.org/RefugeeScam.html and this:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/50201007/Mattar-Encyclopedia-of-the-Palestinians

2000

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